Robyn Alders

Sheep farmer, veterinarian, think-tank consultant, and educator, Robyn Alders, BVSc, DipVetClinStud, PhD, is also a vocal village chicken advocate. The first female veterinary scientist to be made an Officer of the Order of Australia, Robyn is a globally renowned expert on food security and the linkages between livestock production, human livelihoods, nutrition and planetary health. Wise, kind, and with classic Australian wit, Robyn shared her perspectives and reflections with us as she took us on a whirlwind journey through her life. Starting off as a horse crazy kid and the first in her family to graduate from high school, Robyn went on to veterinary school, completed a PhD in Veterinary Immunology, taught in Zambia, worked in Mozambique, helped with the HPAI H5N1 outbreak response, and has been a visionary in the development of village chicken vaccination programs against Newcastle disease. Our planet is a better place because of the efforts of Robyn Alders; it was a joy and a privilege to interview her!

Veterinary School & Year Graduated: University of Sydney, 1984

Additional Degree: PhD Veterinary Immunology, Australian National University, 1989

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Questions and Answers

Tell me about your most challenging and rewarding veterinary jobs or work experiences.
One example of a challenge is from when I was starting off as a vet in Australia and doing a little bit of clinical work while I was doing my PhD studies. One of the very challenging aspects of starting clinical work was that I found my bosses often gave me the jobs that they didn't want to do and they also gave me the chatty clients so my consults would take a little longer. One of my biggest struggles, especially in those days, was explaining to people why I was recommending against the use of antibiotics. The common mindset at the time was that if an animal came in and was sick, the owner wanted to go home with some treatment. Having that discussion about antimicrobial resistance hadn't become a major issue. Having that discussion also made my consults take a little longer than normal.

After I finished my PhD, I made the very unusual move of going to work at a new vet school in Zambia. That was a fabulous experience. I ended up in Zambia because after my PhD I wanted to go and work internationally. Everyone told me that I needed experience. I wrote to universities around the world that taught in English and of the five that responded, I chose to go to the University of Zambia. I worked on a local contract* because as a young, single woman with no debt, that was possible. The great thing about working on a local contract is that you understand exactly what that means. You don't have a lot of money, you don't always have all the resources that you may have been accustomed to. It really helped me to understand what it's like trying to do the job of a veterinarian and for the pay similar to that received by my Zambian colleagues.

I was working with students from a wide range of backgrounds who didn't necessarily choose to be vets, but it was the course they found themselves studying. There were no wall clocks so I'd actually have to mark the time remaining on the board for the students that didn’t have a watch to keep time. The other interesting thing there was that during the colonial days, vets were considered very senior people that pretty much sat behind a desk and gave instructions. I enjoyed demonstrating that vets could actually get out and do hands-on work. It was lovely working with those students and seeing how exciting it was for them to get involved and to do the physical work, particularly when working with wildlife or large animals.

(* Working on a local contract is an expression that refers to being employed and paid in local currency at the same wage as other nationals, rather than being paid as an expatriate employee at a typically much higher international wage.)
What did you love about the position or experience?
The students and the people I worked with, particularly in Zambia. The school had funding from external donors and we were able to do research. I traveled to the four corners of Zambia and I really enjoyed those trips. I had so many questions. I'm very grateful to my drivers who would tolerate the questions that I asked. What amazed me was that in the rural settings and in the cities, everybody knew so much about Australia. It was quite embarrassing for me. I also loved seeing the roles of animals in Zambia. The dogs are very important as guard animals for hunting and the cats are very important for keeping the rodents away from that stored grain that people need throughout the year. It was also so impactful to see how people interact with wildlife and the tension between traditional practices such as sustenance hunting in relation to some of the legislation around wildlife preservation. People won't talk about their hunting if there are very strict laws. Hunting of small rodents is quite common, but some people are a bit reluctant because they've been made to feel as if it's not a civilized practice. It has been so rewarding to put people at ease so they can talk about what they do, their livelihood strategies, how they interact with animals, and what has changed over their lifetime.
Tell me about your journey to get to that point in your life.
Following my time in Zambia I thought I should go home. I had been offered a job through a University in Australia that still had an international component. I went back to that university and started work on an international research project. A couple of months in, I received a phone call from what is now Oxfam Australia. I'd been a long term supporter of theirs, and the phone call came to ask if I would like to apply to their new program officer position. I explained that I would love to apply but I just moved back home and got a new job and the timing didn’t work. Ten days later they called me back, asked again if I would like to apply, and this time I said “sure!” I ended up working for three years with Oxfam Australia as their Southern Africa Program Officer, learning about different methodologies of working with communities and their challenges. The main country of focus was Mozambique. It was emerging from a 16 year war and dealing with a humanitarian emergency. It was such an eye opening experience that helped build my skill base. I had to learn to work with people and the frameworks that govern what can and can't be done. To this day, I have a very special place in my heart for Mozambique. During my time with Oxfam I saw that food security was a major issue. I knew from previous research in Australia that Newcastle disease in chickens was a major problem and I knew that we were seeing bird die-offs in the villages in Mozambique.

I went back to the university that I had left three years previously and we were able to get funding from the Australian Center for International Agricultural Research for a two year project testing a heat-tolerant vaccine against Newcastle disease. People in the community thought we were crazy for wanting to vaccinate their chickens when their children haven't even been vaccinated. However, the trials went very well and they were amazed. The government decided that they would like to be able to produce the vaccine themselves. That two year proof of concept project turned into a 10-year government program to establish production and quality control of their own vaccine. We also developed extension material that could be used and adapted for use across the country, particularly working in low literacy areas. We focused on educating the community about what causes disease. Sometimes there were more supernatural understandings of what causes disease. We came up with programs that would enable that discussion at the community level. That was a really interesting time in the country’s history and there was a challenge in making this program sustainable. There were associated costs with making the vaccine and at that time, Mozambique was ranked by the UN Development Index as the poorest country in the world. After discussions with farmers, we made the decision with our colleagues that the vaccine should be sold. It's now available across the country and completely under their control program. That was a really wonderful journey.

After that, I needed to make a decision about whether to stay in Mozambique or leave. At this time, the 2006 Avian Influenza pandemic had started in Southeast Asia. I was asked by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations if I would like to become involved with their program being based initially in Thailand, but covering Southeast Asia. That was an amazing experience despite the really intense days. There was great concern that the H5N1 virus would mutate and transmit between people. The pressure on the team was enormous. There was this feeling from the wider community, particularly the public health community, that veterinarians had let their side down and allowed the pandemic to spread.

We are still having discussions about resource [allocations] and funding that enable veterinarians to do our work effectively; inequities in this space continue to be a problem. Today, the work that I continue to do is helping decision makers [make informed decisions]. From the government all the way through to the farmers, helping people make decisions that make sense in terms of animal and human welfare, but also in terms of managing scarce resources at a government level or within the private sector. How do you convince people to invest in disease prevention? Controlling disease at its source in animals is absolutely the most cost effective way to go. Getting your message across is the challenge.
As a veterinary student, did you ever imagine yourself taking this journey and having these professional experiences?
Not exactly. When I first went to veterinary school, my idea was to be a horse vet. I grew up on the back of a horse, and when I was 12 my favorite horse got sick. The vet came out and fortunately my horse got better. From then on, I wanted to be a veterinarian with a strong focus on horses. I had the good fortune to stay at a residential college at university through my five years of veterinary school, which was an undergraduate program in those days. That exposed me to a whole range of ideas and different cultures. I went from being horse focused to having much broader views. By the time I graduated, my ideas and my vision had expanded considerably, particularly in relation to issues of social justice. In my final year magazine, I'd written a short article about veterinarians working in international development. I still love horses and I still know more about horses than I do about chickens, but they're one aspect of the broad nature of our profession that I love. Veterinary training is systems based. We work across different species and learn to think in a comparative way. This is a really helpful skill, particularly when it comes to the wider issues of sustainable development and how we support human life and associated animal life on a planet with finite resources. I think veterinary training and our ability to understand different systems gives us a head start in some of these discussions.
Would you have changed anything about your time in veterinary school?
No, not really. I was the first person in my family to finish year 12 in high school. I had no expectations. In a way, not having expectations gave me absolute freedom to choose and do what I felt like I wanted to do at the time. My whole experience has been one of learning. I had the most amazing family who would allow me to go off and do what probably seemed very strange at the time. Having that support was great.

Another important experience was in Mozambique where the national language is Portuguese. I was learning to work in another language and understanding how challenging that is, but also how kind people are when you stumble and how helpful they are in correcting you. I also had the experience of then getting to villages and realizing that even though I'd made all of this effort to speak Portuguese, they didn't speak Portuguese. I really appreciate that insight into how language governs the way you see the world.

Because I was a rural school student, I had to leave home in order to go to university. For me, the best decision and thing my parents ever did for me was to fund my first year in that residential college rather than a shared house. That exposed me to people across a range of different disciplines and backgrounds which was very important. I then subsequently moved into shared accommodations, but not with vet students. I think people who went to university, with their whole university experience within the veterinary school left with a very different experience. At that time, the residential college where I was staying not only had students, but had lecturers and researchers from different backgrounds and countries. It was quite an eye opening experience. That combined well with what I was hearing from some of our lecturers who had had international experiences and showed how appropriately tailored veterinary interventions could make such a difference in the lives of animals and people in a range of international settings. For me, it was perfect. This experience in addition to my exchange experience in the US as a senior high school student helped to open my eyes.
Would you have changed anything about your career path since graduating?
Maybe a couple of small things, but at the time you make decisions based on the information that you have at hand. My aim has been to do good. I tried to follow options that allowed me to do something that I ]thought was going to be useful rather than a particular career.
Did you have any mentors or role models along the way that helped or inspired you? Please provide an example of how they helped you or what qualities they had that made them a good mentor? How did you find them?
My two mentors, both men, were very caring, human beings who enjoyed life beyond veterinary science. They were both absolutely supportive of the engagement of women and committed to making life better for all. Both of them had worked internationally and were eminent figures in their own areas. When I was working in Mozambique with the ACIAR project, the manager would come across and take special care of me. I talked to other people who worked on projects managed by him and it turns out he was the same with everybody. He listened. He understood. He was very thoughtful and he was always there when you needed to talk. It’s important that you have faith in mentors and can share what you're thinking about. I also think it’s important to find mentors that will give you advice without telling you what to do.
Tell me about any pivotal moments or key turning points that shaped your career.
The main turning point was deciding to leave Mozambique. It remains a special country in my heart. Leaving wasn't necessarily easy, but the decision to see whether the project we had built there was robust was quite important. Another pivotal moment was many years ago when my other mentor told me that I didn't have the personality to work within the UN system. Initially I was a bit disappointed to hear that. With hindsight, he's quite right. I am not very good at fitting and working within systems that can sometimes turn a little slowly. I like to see progress so working as a consultant has enabled me to work within a system to achieve specific jobs, but then go off and do other work. In addition to the work I do now, I'm also chair of a small NGO, which works directly with communities and supports what they want to do. That work fits my approach in life. Life is short, you want to see some sort of progress!
Tell me about one or two challenges, setbacks or obstacles that you faced along the way on your professional journey. How did you address those?
When I reflect on my work, I don't first think of barriers and challenges. My approach has always been to look at the situation and try to do something that makes sense in the lives of people. The great thing about growing up on a farm in Australia is that I already understood that farmers make sensible decisions based on what's possible within their own situation. Working internationally, my approach has always been to listen to the farmers, because nobody knows their situation better than they do. I was fortunate that the studies and research into participatory approaches* on the agricultural side brought these social science skills into our toolkit. While it hasn’t been quick, it's been lovely to see positive progress.

We also saw veterinary services start to take an interest in smallholder chickens by providing support and engagement. This opened up a wider discussion about who's involved in animal health in terms of the balance between men and women. Furthermore, once it was obvious the vaccinations were having a positive impact, it became part of the ruling party's platform. I like finding the balance between making a difference now in the lives of people and their animals and seeing a more structural change within policy, legislative frameworks and the allocation of funding. Sometimes I like those short, quick wins, but the long game is really coming up with a system of governance that's fair and just and will work both for people and for our animals. (*check out Christine Jost’s interview to learn more about participatory research!)

When I started working with village chickens, that was not common practice, because at that time, most work in international development focused on cattle and a little bit on small ruminants. Also, in the early days of international animal health work, most of the people engaged were men and most of the work focused on men's business. In the communities we were working in, village chickens were the only livestock that women had control of. When we first mentioned the idea of vaccinating chickens, everyone thought we were crazy. Through my work with the chicken vaccination program, we showed that it was possible to keep these birds alive and build stable flock sizes. This provided an avenue to work with women who take care of the chickens. We saw that, with time, the community preferentially selected women as community vaccinators because they tended to be more hard working and persistent.
What’s been the biggest highlight of your career so far?
The biggest highlight of my career has been watching students do really well. I spent three years working at a vet school in the US and I've been really pleased this year to see that one of my best students has been an AVMA Congressional Fellow, spending 12 months working in Washington, DC. She worked with a senator and was able to get One Health on the agenda to the point where there was a One Health Awareness Week in DC. Watching students realize their dreams and make a change has been excellent. Also, making the decision to come home to Australia and engage where I can in trying to make more structural changes. Finally, buying my own farm and finding out how hard it is to farm is a highlight in progress.
Which Sustainable Development Goal(s) does your work focus on?
“You can't just focus on one of these goals. We have to have all of them working together. The One Health framework provides an opportunity for the different sectors of society to come together and find a way forward, where we can still have a prosperous economy that also helps to regenerate and conserve our environment.”
Is there anything else you’d like to tell me that you think would be helpful or relevant to veterinary students or early career veterinarians?
I really like looking at human and animal welfare and linking that in with One Health environmental justice. That requires working with communities and with society so that equity is front and centre. Another challenge that I think we're going to have to face is population size. They say that around the middle of this century our human population will stabilize at around 10 billion people. We are not alone, we have brought with us a huge number of animals that are raised intensively for our food. We're also increasing the number of companion animals. As veterinarians, we have a responsibility to think about how the world's resources are used in a fashion such that the lives of the majority are benefited. It's not all about feeding people, it's about getting a system that's going to work equitably and maintain planetary systems in a healthy state. Because of our background, veterinarians have a huge role to play in thinking about equity. That might come down to thinking about numbers of companion animals, what type of companion animals, what they eat. We also have to think about how we raise our farm animals and how that can be done in a way that will enhance the environment as well as animal welfare. These are some big questions, but I think that our vet students coming through are completely up for the challenge.